Recently, someone was trying to convince me that baptism with water is an essential part of salvation (becoming born again) using a scripture from the Book of Acts. Here is his statement, and my response to it:
According to Acts 2:38-39 our sins are forgiven by God when we are baptized (the baptism itself is not what forgives our sins since only God can do that) and we receive the gift of the Holy Spirit when we are baptized (the Spirit does not come because of the water, but because that's the time that God has chosen to impart His Spirit to His children). [/quote]
This response is a great illustration of the problem I have with those who try to formulate or prove doctrine from the Book of Acts. “Acts” is a story of transition for the early Church (Body of Christ) and it’s new members from the Old Covenant (Testament, Will) to the New Covenant (Testament, Will), from the old relationship to God to a new relationship with God, from the old way of doing things (eg, the Law, customs, rituals, and ceremonies) to a new way of doing things (eg, grace, mercy, the movement of the Holy Spirit). Additionally, it is also a narrative about some of the early leaders of the new Church (specifically, Peter, Paul and the original apostles and disciples) and their efforts to understand this new gift that the world had been given, so that they could shape and formulate the doctrine and direction of this new movement (first called The Way, later termed “Christianity”). In the process, there were several errors and, shall we say, “misspeaks” made which the Holy Spirit eventually corrected in later chapters of Acts and in the many Epistles which followed. Think about it: Consider the confusion and turmoil which would exist in the Church today if there had been no Epistles to follow the Gospels and the Book of Acts.
The first thing I would challenge you about in your use of Acts 2:38-39 as a doctrine (or shall we say, Law) for water baptism and the forgiveness of sins is wasn’t this the same Peter who was also initially limiting salvation to those who were Jewish and requiring new converts to observe Jewish rituals such as those concerning circumcision, forbidden foods and ceremonial washings? Weren’t these practices quickly challenged and corrected by God through the use of visions, the Holy Spirit and the teachings (and challenges) of Paul? And, oh yes, how about that commune thing that God had to break up by allowing persecution to descend on Jerusalem early on? For instance, take a look at what happened in Acts 10:44-48: A large group of people were listening to Peter preach about Jesus and salvation, and when they believed in Him they were baptized by the Holy Spirit. THEN (after the baptism of the Holy Spirit) Peter said, “Can anyone keep these people (they were all Gentiles - like you (I assume) and me) from being baptized with water? THEY HAVE RECEIVED THE HOLY SPIRIT (before being baptized with water) JUST AS WE HAVE.” Do you see that this contradicts your suggestion that we become born again at the exact moment we are baptized with water? Don’t you see that these people became born again the moment that they believed in Jesus and were baptized by His Holy Spirit, and that if a suicide bomber had walked in and blown them up before they could be baptized with water, they would have all entered the Kingdom of Heaven (they had already entered the Kingdom of God, when they became born again through the Holy Spirit)?
Peter even contradicts his own statement in Acts 2:38 with his words concerning baptism and the forgiveness of sins in 1 Peter 3:18-21, which is more in line with the teachings of the other Epistles concerning these two different subjects. In Acts 2:38, Peter suggests that the forgiveness of sins is based on repentance and baptism (he never says whether this is with water or the Holy Spirit, although he had just experienced the latter); however, in 1 Peter 3:18 he teaches that the forgiveness of all sins of all mankind occurred the moment that Christ was put to death in the body (“For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God”). This Scripture (1 Pet 3:18) agrees with other Scriptures in the New Testament, such as Romans chapter 6 and chapters 9 and 10 in Hebrews, which testify that regardless of whether or not we receive it, Christ’s suffering and death on the Cross paid the penalty for and provided forgiveness for all the sins of all mankind - once for all. Hebrews 10:17-18 seals it all with this pronouncement from the Holy Spirit: “’Their sins and lawless acts I will remember no more.’ And where these (sins) HAVE BEEN FORGIVEN, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins.”
You see, after Jesus’ death on the cross, the issue of salvation is no longer about the forgiveness of sins and receiving new life; it’s solely about receiving new life, made possible by the power of the Resurrection (see 1 Peter 3:21b-22) and the Gift of the Holy Spirit. No one goes to hell for committing sins after the cross, because the exact minute Jesus died on the cross He paid the penalty for ALL of the sins of all mankind (“He died ONCE for ALL...”). After that moment, the only thing that can send a person to hell is being dead in Adam, instead of being alive in Christ - in other words, spiritual death. After Christ’s death on the cross, the one and only sin that can send a person to hell is the sin of unbelief in what He has done for us, because that is the only action that can keep a person from asking Jesus into his/her heart and receiving Life (thus, “unbelief which occurs BEFORE being born again” is the only unpardonable sin).
Finally, concerning baptism by water, Peter himself teaches in 1 Peter 3:21 that the water that saved Noah and his family and that removes dirt from the body - earthly, physical water - is a symbol of the spiritual baptism which occurs when we pledge ourselves to God (verse 21, “and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you”)...Which is what I’ve been saying all along, that water baptism is a symbol of the baptism which Christ provides when we become born again.
Wednesday, July 2, 2008
Friday, November 9, 2007
Our Most Important Decision In Life
On a recent forum I was surfing a young person posted this very poignant and relevant-to-the-times statement.
I find myself here in the middle of the night, searching for a place to look for guidance. I came across this place.
I'm 19 years old, I grew up in the Catholic church. I never took my faith seriously, but I always respected it for what it was. These days, I find myself losing touch with it, I find myself having serious doubts about what this world is and if there is anything behind it. I got on my knees and asked God to give me a sign last week. I don't know, maybe I'm looking too hard, or maybe I'm not looking hard enough. I find myself losing sleep at night thinking about all the questions in this world.
I don't know what anyone could say back to this, but I'm looking for any kind of help or advice, I just don't know what to do anymore.
Dab06
Since I believe that this statement represents the dilemma of many people today, I took it to my prayer time to seek my Father's thoughts about this situation. The following was my response to this posting, based on what I believed He was showing me:
Hi and welcome to our forum...and CONGRATULATIONS on responding to the conviction God is putting on your heart (which probably started in earnest with your plea to Him on your knees last week) by posting your dilemma on this site and requesting advice and assistance; I assure you, you are in the process of making the most important decision of your life! Jesus once said "Seek and you shall find, knock and the door will be open to you, ask and you shall receive, that your joy be made complete." You are seeking peace, love, hope and a purpose for your life, and Jesus Christ is the manifestation of those desires.
The fact of the matter is, Dab, you have a very important decision to make in your life concerning God and His plan for this world. Fortunately, your status as a Catholic (or any other denomination) or as a person (how good or bad, smart or dumb, rich or poor you are) is not the issue at this point. The question is, what have you done with Jesus? What I mean is this: You probably remember from your catechism or from the weekly readings of the Gospel in church that in the 14th chapter of the Gospel of John Jesus told us “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”(verse 6) Also, do you remember from religion classes what Jesus told Martha just before He brought her brother, Lazarus, back from the dead? He said, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies; and whoever lives and believes in me will never die.”(John 11:25-26) You see, Dab, Jesus was either telling the truth or telling or lie, or He was some kind of kook. What you have to decide is which one is it. If you believe He was telling a lie or was just a crazy prophet, then we can’t help you much here because we believe that the only help God has to offer us in this world is through His Son and our relationship to Him, through His Holy Spirit, and through his Word (the Bible). On the other hand, if you believe that Jesus is telling the truth, then you need to become born again, as He explained to Nicodemus in the 3rd Chapter of John, by inviting Him to come live in your life.
You see, the REAL you is a spirit being who has a soul (made up of your mind, will and emotions) which lives in a body: Picture an astronaut making a space walk in his space suit. The problem is that when we are born into this world, our spirit is separated from God because of the actions of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden (if you were brought up Catholic, then I’m sure you know the story); essentially, our spirit is “dead” to God. From the moment Adam caused that death (separation from God’s Spirit), God so loved Mankind that He put into effect a plan which would eliminate the barrier between Him and Man and would reunite His and their spirits, thus restoring eternal life to those who would receive Him. That plan was to provide His Son, Jesus, as a human and spiritual sacrifice to eliminate the barrier of unpunished sin that stood between us and Him and then to resurrect Him from the dead so that His Spirit could walk the earth today through the new spirit which is created in us when we receive what He has done for us and invite Him into our heart. Someone described it this way: Jesus gave His Life for us, so that He could give His Life to us, so that He could live His Life through us.
Here’s a metaphor to help you to understand the situation a little better: Suppose you had a friend or acquaintance who contracted cancer and died. Suppose further that you had the ability to restore life to that person and bring him/her back to life. What are the two issues you would have to resolve in order to bring that person back to life? If you brought him back to life without curing the cancer, he would just very quickly die again. On the other hand, if you just cured the cancer without giving him life, you would just have a healed corpse on your hands. You see what I mean? You would have to remove the cancer and then restore that person’s spirit to make the resurrection stick. In the illustration, the dead person represents all of mankind and the cancer represents sin, beginning with Adam and Eves’ unbelief (the Bible says that everything that does not come from faith in God is sin), and the punishment God required for sin before Jesus. When Jesus died on the cross over 2,000 years ago, He satisfied the punishment due for all the sins of all mankind for all time (past, present and future), and when He rose from the dead, He restored the opportunity for every person in this world to have a personal relationship with God (in other words, Life) through His spiritual presence in those who believe in Him. That’s what the Scripture you see on the posters at sporting events on TV (John 3:16) says: “That God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that he who would believe on Him would have eternal life.”
Why is all this relevant to you? Because you want and need God’s help, and it sounds like you could also use a good dose of peace and hope. But God can’t help you if you haven’t accepted what He’s done for you through his Son, Jesus Christ, because you are spiritually separated from Him (in other words, dead to Him). In the Bible, Jesus said that we are either of our Father God or our father the devil. The Word says that when we allow the Spirit of Christ Jesus to come into our life, He makes our spirit alive with His, thereby making us children of God and heirs to His Kingdom. (This is also known as being saved or being born again.) Then we have access, through faith, to all the resources and promises (found in the New Testament of the Bible) of God to assist us with life in this world! And when God starts moving on your behalf, and believe me, He will, you’ll be awed at the difference it makes!
Here is what the Romans 10:9-11 says: That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame." Why don’t you get alone with God and make that confession, assuring eternal life with Him...and then ask Him for help and direction in developing that relationship with Him. Ask Him to lead you to a church or Bible study of true Believers who can help teach you and guide you in His ways. If I’m wrong, you’ve lost nothing; but if I’m right, and I know I am, you’ve gained everything.
You can download a free copy of a book called The Prayer Directed Life at www.theprayerdirectedlife.com to help get you started with your new Life if you like. May God bless you and direct you in your quest.
I find myself here in the middle of the night, searching for a place to look for guidance. I came across this place.
I'm 19 years old, I grew up in the Catholic church. I never took my faith seriously, but I always respected it for what it was. These days, I find myself losing touch with it, I find myself having serious doubts about what this world is and if there is anything behind it. I got on my knees and asked God to give me a sign last week. I don't know, maybe I'm looking too hard, or maybe I'm not looking hard enough. I find myself losing sleep at night thinking about all the questions in this world.
I don't know what anyone could say back to this, but I'm looking for any kind of help or advice, I just don't know what to do anymore.
Dab06
Since I believe that this statement represents the dilemma of many people today, I took it to my prayer time to seek my Father's thoughts about this situation. The following was my response to this posting, based on what I believed He was showing me:
Hi and welcome to our forum...and CONGRATULATIONS on responding to the conviction God is putting on your heart (which probably started in earnest with your plea to Him on your knees last week) by posting your dilemma on this site and requesting advice and assistance; I assure you, you are in the process of making the most important decision of your life! Jesus once said "Seek and you shall find, knock and the door will be open to you, ask and you shall receive, that your joy be made complete." You are seeking peace, love, hope and a purpose for your life, and Jesus Christ is the manifestation of those desires.
The fact of the matter is, Dab, you have a very important decision to make in your life concerning God and His plan for this world. Fortunately, your status as a Catholic (or any other denomination) or as a person (how good or bad, smart or dumb, rich or poor you are) is not the issue at this point. The question is, what have you done with Jesus? What I mean is this: You probably remember from your catechism or from the weekly readings of the Gospel in church that in the 14th chapter of the Gospel of John Jesus told us “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”(verse 6) Also, do you remember from religion classes what Jesus told Martha just before He brought her brother, Lazarus, back from the dead? He said, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies; and whoever lives and believes in me will never die.”(John 11:25-26) You see, Dab, Jesus was either telling the truth or telling or lie, or He was some kind of kook. What you have to decide is which one is it. If you believe He was telling a lie or was just a crazy prophet, then we can’t help you much here because we believe that the only help God has to offer us in this world is through His Son and our relationship to Him, through His Holy Spirit, and through his Word (the Bible). On the other hand, if you believe that Jesus is telling the truth, then you need to become born again, as He explained to Nicodemus in the 3rd Chapter of John, by inviting Him to come live in your life.
You see, the REAL you is a spirit being who has a soul (made up of your mind, will and emotions) which lives in a body: Picture an astronaut making a space walk in his space suit. The problem is that when we are born into this world, our spirit is separated from God because of the actions of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden (if you were brought up Catholic, then I’m sure you know the story); essentially, our spirit is “dead” to God. From the moment Adam caused that death (separation from God’s Spirit), God so loved Mankind that He put into effect a plan which would eliminate the barrier between Him and Man and would reunite His and their spirits, thus restoring eternal life to those who would receive Him. That plan was to provide His Son, Jesus, as a human and spiritual sacrifice to eliminate the barrier of unpunished sin that stood between us and Him and then to resurrect Him from the dead so that His Spirit could walk the earth today through the new spirit which is created in us when we receive what He has done for us and invite Him into our heart. Someone described it this way: Jesus gave His Life for us, so that He could give His Life to us, so that He could live His Life through us.
Here’s a metaphor to help you to understand the situation a little better: Suppose you had a friend or acquaintance who contracted cancer and died. Suppose further that you had the ability to restore life to that person and bring him/her back to life. What are the two issues you would have to resolve in order to bring that person back to life? If you brought him back to life without curing the cancer, he would just very quickly die again. On the other hand, if you just cured the cancer without giving him life, you would just have a healed corpse on your hands. You see what I mean? You would have to remove the cancer and then restore that person’s spirit to make the resurrection stick. In the illustration, the dead person represents all of mankind and the cancer represents sin, beginning with Adam and Eves’ unbelief (the Bible says that everything that does not come from faith in God is sin), and the punishment God required for sin before Jesus. When Jesus died on the cross over 2,000 years ago, He satisfied the punishment due for all the sins of all mankind for all time (past, present and future), and when He rose from the dead, He restored the opportunity for every person in this world to have a personal relationship with God (in other words, Life) through His spiritual presence in those who believe in Him. That’s what the Scripture you see on the posters at sporting events on TV (John 3:16) says: “That God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that he who would believe on Him would have eternal life.”
Why is all this relevant to you? Because you want and need God’s help, and it sounds like you could also use a good dose of peace and hope. But God can’t help you if you haven’t accepted what He’s done for you through his Son, Jesus Christ, because you are spiritually separated from Him (in other words, dead to Him). In the Bible, Jesus said that we are either of our Father God or our father the devil. The Word says that when we allow the Spirit of Christ Jesus to come into our life, He makes our spirit alive with His, thereby making us children of God and heirs to His Kingdom. (This is also known as being saved or being born again.) Then we have access, through faith, to all the resources and promises (found in the New Testament of the Bible) of God to assist us with life in this world! And when God starts moving on your behalf, and believe me, He will, you’ll be awed at the difference it makes!
Here is what the Romans 10:9-11 says: That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame." Why don’t you get alone with God and make that confession, assuring eternal life with Him...and then ask Him for help and direction in developing that relationship with Him. Ask Him to lead you to a church or Bible study of true Believers who can help teach you and guide you in His ways. If I’m wrong, you’ve lost nothing; but if I’m right, and I know I am, you’ve gained everything.
You can download a free copy of a book called The Prayer Directed Life at www.theprayerdirectedlife.com to help get you started with your new Life if you like. May God bless you and direct you in your quest.
Tuesday, July 31, 2007
Are you one of those who believe that the following Scripture passage establishes a doctrine for water baptism by immersion? Perhaps you ought to reconsider.
Acts 8:36-39 (New American Standard Bible)
New American Standard Bible (NASB):
36As they went along the road they came to some water; and the eunuch said, "Look! Water! (A)What prevents me from being baptized?"
37[[a]And Philip said, "If you believe with all your heart, you may." And he answered and said, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."]
38And he ordered the chariot to stop; and they both went down into the water, Philip as well as the eunuch, and he baptized him.
39When they came up out of the water, (B)the Spirit of the Lord snatched Philip away; and the eunuch no longer saw him, but went on his way rejoicing.
I will say to you what I wrote in another forum recently: This response is a great illustration of the problem I have with those who try to formulate or prove doctrine from the Book of Acts. “Acts” is a story of transition for the early Church (Body of Christ) and it’s new members from the Old Covenant (Testament, Will) to the New Covenant (Testament, Will), from the old relationship to God to a new relationship with God, from the old way of doing things (eg, the Law, customs, rituals, and ceremonies) to a new way of doing things (eg, grace, mercy, the movement of the Holy Spirit). Additionally, it is also a narrative about some of the early leaders of the new Church (specifically, Peter, Paul and the original apostles and disciples) and their efforts to understand this new gift that the world had been given, so that they could shape and formulate the doctrine and direction of this new movement (first called The Way, later termed “Christianity”). Think about it: Consider the confusion and turmoil which would exist in the Church today if there had been no Epistles to follow the Gospels and the Book of Acts.
It is also an example of interpreting the Message according to a Scripture, instead of interpreting a Scripture according to the message - like expecting a couple of pieces of jigsaw puzzle to represent the end picture on the front of the box.
I am absolutely amazed at how apparently learned Christians like yourself will take Acts 8:36-39 and suggest that it “clearly” represents anything about the eunuch’s baptismal process. For instance, was the water the eunuch referred to a brook, a stream, a river, a pond, or maybe a lake? Because if the water was a brook or stream or the like (which was much more likely in that part of the world), then it would have been impossible to immerse completely a grown man or woman. But lets say it [i]was[/i] a large enough body of water for complete immersion; using your attempt to make this passage a doctrine for water baptism, then we should only be using outdoor bodies of water in outdoor settings for the ceremony, because nowhere else in the NT Scriptures does it suggest that using indoor “baptistries” or pools in church settings is authorized for water baptisms. (In fact, indoor baptistries started out as fonts, and didn’t really begin to take root until around Augustine’s tenure as Church leader in the 5th century.)
Now, let’s look at the idea of Philip and the eunuch going “down into the water” (notice how you changed the word “[b]into[/b]” to “[b]in[/b]” to justify your interpretation?): If you and I were standing on the bank of any body of water, whether it be a brook, a river, a lake, or whatever, and we wanted to go stand in that water, don’t you see that we would have to walk DOWN that bank to get INTO the water? And by the same token, wouldn’t we have to come UP OUT OF the water (even if it was only ankle deep) to get UP on the bank again? Do you really not see what a tremendous stretch it is to make this simple act into a doctrine for water baptism by immersion, especially with no scriptures in the Epistles to support it? Come on, Brother, give me a break! I think that your failure to be able to provide definitive Scriptures to “clearly” support your position on water baptism by immersion brings up a very important question: Don’t you think that if water baptism was a necessary part of our salvation there would be a lot more guidance concerning the methods and procedures on conducting that ceremony so that there would be no divisive questions like this to deal with?
The Ethiopian eunuch’s actual salvation and spiritual baptism actually came with his words in verse 37 where he said that he believed with all of his heart “that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”(See John 3:16-18) Every reference in the Gospels to the baptism that Jesus Christ would perform on Believers was with the Holy Spirit, not water. “Salvation,” “eternal life” and becoming “born again” are all SPIRITUAL concepts that affect our SPIRITUAL being through the SPIRITUAL presence of Jesus Christ in our SPIRITUAL heart as a result of the SPIRITUAL immersion (baptism) of our SPIRITUAL being in the indwelling SPIRITUAL presence of the Holy SPIRIT. Every reference to salvation in the New Testament Scriptures either says or indicates that it (salvation) occurs through a combination of two components - God’s immeasurable grace and our belief in Jesus Christ, the resurrected Son of God. All other requirements are man’s attempt to control the salvation process and limit who can be saved to those who will “perform” according to his (man’s) standards. The attempt to impose rules, laws and ceremonies on the salvation process is Old Testament thinking, which Christ “clearly” said, as He died on the Cross, “is finished.”
I believe that what the Holy Spirit has shown me is that baptism with water is “clearly” a physical symbol of what happens SPIRITUALLY when we become born again, just as putting on a wedding ring is a physical symbol of the spiritual bond that occurs when we get married. When we can understand [i]that[/i] concept, then the question of whether we’ve been immersed, sprinkled or sprayed will no longer be an issue, anymore than whether we wear a silver band or a gold band is for the marriage ceremony.
Acts 8:36-39 (New American Standard Bible)
New American Standard Bible (NASB):
36As they went along the road they came to some water; and the eunuch said, "Look! Water! (A)What prevents me from being baptized?"
37[[a]And Philip said, "If you believe with all your heart, you may." And he answered and said, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."]
38And he ordered the chariot to stop; and they both went down into the water, Philip as well as the eunuch, and he baptized him.
39When they came up out of the water, (B)the Spirit of the Lord snatched Philip away; and the eunuch no longer saw him, but went on his way rejoicing.
I will say to you what I wrote in another forum recently: This response is a great illustration of the problem I have with those who try to formulate or prove doctrine from the Book of Acts. “Acts” is a story of transition for the early Church (Body of Christ) and it’s new members from the Old Covenant (Testament, Will) to the New Covenant (Testament, Will), from the old relationship to God to a new relationship with God, from the old way of doing things (eg, the Law, customs, rituals, and ceremonies) to a new way of doing things (eg, grace, mercy, the movement of the Holy Spirit). Additionally, it is also a narrative about some of the early leaders of the new Church (specifically, Peter, Paul and the original apostles and disciples) and their efforts to understand this new gift that the world had been given, so that they could shape and formulate the doctrine and direction of this new movement (first called The Way, later termed “Christianity”). Think about it: Consider the confusion and turmoil which would exist in the Church today if there had been no Epistles to follow the Gospels and the Book of Acts.
It is also an example of interpreting the Message according to a Scripture, instead of interpreting a Scripture according to the message - like expecting a couple of pieces of jigsaw puzzle to represent the end picture on the front of the box.
I am absolutely amazed at how apparently learned Christians like yourself will take Acts 8:36-39 and suggest that it “clearly” represents anything about the eunuch’s baptismal process. For instance, was the water the eunuch referred to a brook, a stream, a river, a pond, or maybe a lake? Because if the water was a brook or stream or the like (which was much more likely in that part of the world), then it would have been impossible to immerse completely a grown man or woman. But lets say it [i]was[/i] a large enough body of water for complete immersion; using your attempt to make this passage a doctrine for water baptism, then we should only be using outdoor bodies of water in outdoor settings for the ceremony, because nowhere else in the NT Scriptures does it suggest that using indoor “baptistries” or pools in church settings is authorized for water baptisms. (In fact, indoor baptistries started out as fonts, and didn’t really begin to take root until around Augustine’s tenure as Church leader in the 5th century.)
Now, let’s look at the idea of Philip and the eunuch going “down into the water” (notice how you changed the word “[b]into[/b]” to “[b]in[/b]” to justify your interpretation?): If you and I were standing on the bank of any body of water, whether it be a brook, a river, a lake, or whatever, and we wanted to go stand in that water, don’t you see that we would have to walk DOWN that bank to get INTO the water? And by the same token, wouldn’t we have to come UP OUT OF the water (even if it was only ankle deep) to get UP on the bank again? Do you really not see what a tremendous stretch it is to make this simple act into a doctrine for water baptism by immersion, especially with no scriptures in the Epistles to support it? Come on, Brother, give me a break! I think that your failure to be able to provide definitive Scriptures to “clearly” support your position on water baptism by immersion brings up a very important question: Don’t you think that if water baptism was a necessary part of our salvation there would be a lot more guidance concerning the methods and procedures on conducting that ceremony so that there would be no divisive questions like this to deal with?
The Ethiopian eunuch’s actual salvation and spiritual baptism actually came with his words in verse 37 where he said that he believed with all of his heart “that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”(See John 3:16-18) Every reference in the Gospels to the baptism that Jesus Christ would perform on Believers was with the Holy Spirit, not water. “Salvation,” “eternal life” and becoming “born again” are all SPIRITUAL concepts that affect our SPIRITUAL being through the SPIRITUAL presence of Jesus Christ in our SPIRITUAL heart as a result of the SPIRITUAL immersion (baptism) of our SPIRITUAL being in the indwelling SPIRITUAL presence of the Holy SPIRIT. Every reference to salvation in the New Testament Scriptures either says or indicates that it (salvation) occurs through a combination of two components - God’s immeasurable grace and our belief in Jesus Christ, the resurrected Son of God. All other requirements are man’s attempt to control the salvation process and limit who can be saved to those who will “perform” according to his (man’s) standards. The attempt to impose rules, laws and ceremonies on the salvation process is Old Testament thinking, which Christ “clearly” said, as He died on the Cross, “is finished.”
I believe that what the Holy Spirit has shown me is that baptism with water is “clearly” a physical symbol of what happens SPIRITUALLY when we become born again, just as putting on a wedding ring is a physical symbol of the spiritual bond that occurs when we get married. When we can understand [i]that[/i] concept, then the question of whether we’ve been immersed, sprinkled or sprayed will no longer be an issue, anymore than whether we wear a silver band or a gold band is for the marriage ceremony.
For those of you who like to use the following Scripture as a doctrine, I have a few comments:
John 3:5
"I tell you the truth Jesus answered him. If any one isn’t born of water and Spirit, he can't get into Gods Kingdom."[/quote]
May I suggest that your interpretation of the above Scripture creates a huge problem for you and others like you who insist on interpreting the Message of Salvation by Scripture instead of the other way around (that is, interpreting the Scriptures according to the Message) - it negates, ignores and/or conflicts with a number of Scriptures in the Gospels and New Testament, to include the ones I alluded to in my original question. It's the same problem that occurs when Christians and churches insist on using this and other one line verses (such as 1 John 1:9 and Heb 10:25) to establish doctrine. My friend, it’s like trying to define the final picture of a jigsaw puzzle using two or three of the puzzle pieces.
Please allow me to show you what I mean. Using the above verse to justify or infer that water baptism is a requirement for Salvation, or to justify entering the Kingdom of God or the Kingdom of Heaven (yes - they are two different things), creates at least the following two major problems:
1) When Jesus proposed the concept of being “born again” to Nicodemus, He was trying to explain to him that this was a “Spiritual” event which had to take place in order for Man to enter into the Kingdom of God by receiving salvation and eternal life. (Please note, nowhere in this entire passage in John chapter 3:1-21 was the word “baptism” used.) In fact, Jesus chided Nicodemus for being “flesh” or “earthly” minded in his assessment of what Jesus was saying. When you use this verse to infer that Jesus was talking about “earthly” water, then must also infer that John the Baptist was talking about “earthly” fire when he suggested in Matt 3:11 and Luke 3:16 when he announced that Jesus would baptize us with “the Holy Spirit and fire.” (Please note, the word “baptize” IS actually used in BOTH of these Scriptures.) Do you see that if I interpret these Scriptures the way you interpret what Jesus said in John 3:5, that would mean we would all have to be immersed in actual, “earthly” fire in order to be baptized? Ouch! I don’t believe that would go over too well; do you?
2) Your inference that Jesus is talking about a requirement to be baptized with water in this or any other passage negates Scripture passages like Rom 3:20-22 and Eph 2:4-9 which teach that it is only through God’s grace and mercy that we are saved and given eternal life in the Kingdom of God, not by our works or involvement in observing ceremonies or obeying “church” law. In fact, it negates another verse from the very same chapter of John you used - that is, John 3:16, which, as you probably know, says, “ For God so loved the world that He gave his one and only Son, that whoever BELIEVES IN HIM shall not perish but have eternal life.”
When we understand what Jesus was trying to tell Nicodemus, that being born again is a SPIRITUAL event and that only our SPIRIT becomes born again - not our body (flesh) or soul (mind, will and emotions) - then it becomes easier to understand the truth of what He was saying. The Apostle Paul provides a wonderful explanation and interpretation of what Jesus was saying here in Titus 3:5-6...You should read it.
John 3:5
"I tell you the truth Jesus answered him. If any one isn’t born of water and Spirit, he can't get into Gods Kingdom."[/quote]
May I suggest that your interpretation of the above Scripture creates a huge problem for you and others like you who insist on interpreting the Message of Salvation by Scripture instead of the other way around (that is, interpreting the Scriptures according to the Message) - it negates, ignores and/or conflicts with a number of Scriptures in the Gospels and New Testament, to include the ones I alluded to in my original question. It's the same problem that occurs when Christians and churches insist on using this and other one line verses (such as 1 John 1:9 and Heb 10:25) to establish doctrine. My friend, it’s like trying to define the final picture of a jigsaw puzzle using two or three of the puzzle pieces.
Please allow me to show you what I mean. Using the above verse to justify or infer that water baptism is a requirement for Salvation, or to justify entering the Kingdom of God or the Kingdom of Heaven (yes - they are two different things), creates at least the following two major problems:
1) When Jesus proposed the concept of being “born again” to Nicodemus, He was trying to explain to him that this was a “Spiritual” event which had to take place in order for Man to enter into the Kingdom of God by receiving salvation and eternal life. (Please note, nowhere in this entire passage in John chapter 3:1-21 was the word “baptism” used.) In fact, Jesus chided Nicodemus for being “flesh” or “earthly” minded in his assessment of what Jesus was saying. When you use this verse to infer that Jesus was talking about “earthly” water, then must also infer that John the Baptist was talking about “earthly” fire when he suggested in Matt 3:11 and Luke 3:16 when he announced that Jesus would baptize us with “the Holy Spirit and fire.” (Please note, the word “baptize” IS actually used in BOTH of these Scriptures.) Do you see that if I interpret these Scriptures the way you interpret what Jesus said in John 3:5, that would mean we would all have to be immersed in actual, “earthly” fire in order to be baptized? Ouch! I don’t believe that would go over too well; do you?
2) Your inference that Jesus is talking about a requirement to be baptized with water in this or any other passage negates Scripture passages like Rom 3:20-22 and Eph 2:4-9 which teach that it is only through God’s grace and mercy that we are saved and given eternal life in the Kingdom of God, not by our works or involvement in observing ceremonies or obeying “church” law. In fact, it negates another verse from the very same chapter of John you used - that is, John 3:16, which, as you probably know, says, “ For God so loved the world that He gave his one and only Son, that whoever BELIEVES IN HIM shall not perish but have eternal life.”
When we understand what Jesus was trying to tell Nicodemus, that being born again is a SPIRITUAL event and that only our SPIRIT becomes born again - not our body (flesh) or soul (mind, will and emotions) - then it becomes easier to understand the truth of what He was saying. The Apostle Paul provides a wonderful explanation and interpretation of what Jesus was saying here in Titus 3:5-6...You should read it.
On Baptism and Baptizing
Recent statement on a Forum I participate in, with my response:
According to Acts 2:38-39 our sins are forgiven by God when we are baptized (the baptism itself is not what forgives our sins since only God can do that) and we receive the gift of the Holy Spirit when we are baptized (the Spirit does not come because of the water, but because that's the time that God has chosen to impart His Spirit to His children). [/quote]
This response is a great illustration of the problem I have with those who try to formulate or prove doctrine from the Book of Acts. “Acts” is a story of transition for the early Church (Body of Christ) and it’s new members from the Old Covenant (Testament, Will) to the New Covenant (Testament, Will), from the old relationship to God to a new relationship with God, from the old way of doing things (eg, the Law, customs, rituals, and ceremonies) to a new way of doing things (eg, grace, mercy, the movement of the Holy Spirit). Additionally, it is also a narrative about some of the early leaders of the new Church (specifically, Peter, Paul and the original apostles and disciples) and their efforts to understand this new gift that the world had been given, so that they could shape and formulate the doctrine and direction of this new movement (first called The Way, later termed “Christianity”). In the process, there were several errors and, shall we say, “misspeaks” made which the Holy Spirit eventually corrected in later chapters of Acts and in the many Epistles which followed. Think about it: Consider the confusion and turmoil which would exist in the Church today if there had been no Epistles to follow the Gospels and the Book of Acts.
The first thing I would challenge you about in your use of Acts 2:38-39 as a doctrine (or shall we say, Law) for water baptism and the forgiveness of sins is wasn’t this the same Peter who was also initially limiting salvation to those who were Jewish and requiring new converts to observe Jewish rituals such as those concerning circumcision, forbidden foods and ceremonial washings? Weren’t these practices quickly challenged and corrected by God through the use of visions, the Holy Spirit and the teachings (and challenges) of Paul? And, oh yes, how about that commune thing that God had to break up by allowing persecution to descend on Jerusalem early on? For instance, take a look at what happened in Acts 10:44-48: A large group of people were listening to Peter preach about Jesus and salvation, and when they believed in Him they were baptized by the Holy Spirit. THEN (after the baptism of the Holy Spirit) Peter said, “Can anyone keep these people (they were all Gentiles - like you (I assume) and me) from being baptized with water? THEY HAVE RECEIVED THE HOLY SPIRIT (before being baptized with water) JUST AS WE HAVE.” Do you see that this contradicts your suggestion that we become born again at the exact moment we are baptized with water? Don’t you see that these people became born again the moment that they believed in Jesus and were baptized by His Holy Spirit, and that if a suicide bomber had walked in and blown them up before they could be baptized with water, they would have all entered the Kingdom of [b]Heaven[/b] (they had already entered the Kingdom of [b]God[/b], when they became born again through the Holy Spirit)?
Peter even contradicts his own statement in Acts 2:38 with his words concerning baptism and the forgiveness of sins in 1 Peter 3:18-21, which is more in line with the teachings of the other Epistles concerning these two different subjects. In Acts 2:38, Peter suggests that the forgiveness of sins is based on repentance and baptism (he never says whether this is with water or the Holy Spirit, although he had just experienced the latter); however, in 1 Peter 3:18 he teaches that the forgiveness of all sins of all mankind occurred the moment that Christ was put to death in the body (“For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God”). This Scripture (1 Pet 3:18) agrees with other Scriptures in the New Testament, such as Romans chapter 6 and chapters 9 and 10 in Hebrews, which testify that regardless of whether or not we receive it, Christ’s suffering and death on the Cross paid the penalty for and provided forgiveness for all the sins of all mankind - once for all. Hebrews 10:17-18 seals it all with this pronouncement from the Holy Spirit: “’Their sins and lawless acts I will remember no more.’ And where these (sins) HAVE BEEN FORGIVEN, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins.”
You see, after Jesus’ death on the cross, the issue of salvation is no longer about the forgiveness of sins and receiving new life; it’s solely about receiving new life, made possible by the power of the Resurrection (see 1 Peter 3:21b-22) and the Gift of the Holy Spirit. No one goes to hell for committing sins after the cross, because the exact minute Jesus died on the cross He paid the penalty for ALL of the sins of all mankind (“He died ONCE for ALL...”). After that moment, the only thing that can send a person to hell is being dead in Adam, instead of being alive in Christ - in other words, spiritual death. After Christ’s death on the cross, the one and only sin that can send a person to hell is the sin of unbelief in what He has done for us, because that is the only action that can keep a person from asking Jesus into his/her heart and receiving Life (thus, “unbelief which occurs BEFORE being born again” is the only unpardonable sin).
Finally, concerning baptism by water, Peter himself teaches in 1 Peter 3:21 that the water that saved Noah and his family and that removes dirt from the body - earthly, physical water - is a [b][i]symbol[/b][/i] of the spiritual baptism which occurs when we pledge ourselves to God (verse 21, “and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you”)...Which is what I’ve been saying all along, that water baptism is a symbol of the baptism which Christ provides when we become born again.
According to Acts 2:38-39 our sins are forgiven by God when we are baptized (the baptism itself is not what forgives our sins since only God can do that) and we receive the gift of the Holy Spirit when we are baptized (the Spirit does not come because of the water, but because that's the time that God has chosen to impart His Spirit to His children). [/quote]
This response is a great illustration of the problem I have with those who try to formulate or prove doctrine from the Book of Acts. “Acts” is a story of transition for the early Church (Body of Christ) and it’s new members from the Old Covenant (Testament, Will) to the New Covenant (Testament, Will), from the old relationship to God to a new relationship with God, from the old way of doing things (eg, the Law, customs, rituals, and ceremonies) to a new way of doing things (eg, grace, mercy, the movement of the Holy Spirit). Additionally, it is also a narrative about some of the early leaders of the new Church (specifically, Peter, Paul and the original apostles and disciples) and their efforts to understand this new gift that the world had been given, so that they could shape and formulate the doctrine and direction of this new movement (first called The Way, later termed “Christianity”). In the process, there were several errors and, shall we say, “misspeaks” made which the Holy Spirit eventually corrected in later chapters of Acts and in the many Epistles which followed. Think about it: Consider the confusion and turmoil which would exist in the Church today if there had been no Epistles to follow the Gospels and the Book of Acts.
The first thing I would challenge you about in your use of Acts 2:38-39 as a doctrine (or shall we say, Law) for water baptism and the forgiveness of sins is wasn’t this the same Peter who was also initially limiting salvation to those who were Jewish and requiring new converts to observe Jewish rituals such as those concerning circumcision, forbidden foods and ceremonial washings? Weren’t these practices quickly challenged and corrected by God through the use of visions, the Holy Spirit and the teachings (and challenges) of Paul? And, oh yes, how about that commune thing that God had to break up by allowing persecution to descend on Jerusalem early on? For instance, take a look at what happened in Acts 10:44-48: A large group of people were listening to Peter preach about Jesus and salvation, and when they believed in Him they were baptized by the Holy Spirit. THEN (after the baptism of the Holy Spirit) Peter said, “Can anyone keep these people (they were all Gentiles - like you (I assume) and me) from being baptized with water? THEY HAVE RECEIVED THE HOLY SPIRIT (before being baptized with water) JUST AS WE HAVE.” Do you see that this contradicts your suggestion that we become born again at the exact moment we are baptized with water? Don’t you see that these people became born again the moment that they believed in Jesus and were baptized by His Holy Spirit, and that if a suicide bomber had walked in and blown them up before they could be baptized with water, they would have all entered the Kingdom of [b]Heaven[/b] (they had already entered the Kingdom of [b]God[/b], when they became born again through the Holy Spirit)?
Peter even contradicts his own statement in Acts 2:38 with his words concerning baptism and the forgiveness of sins in 1 Peter 3:18-21, which is more in line with the teachings of the other Epistles concerning these two different subjects. In Acts 2:38, Peter suggests that the forgiveness of sins is based on repentance and baptism (he never says whether this is with water or the Holy Spirit, although he had just experienced the latter); however, in 1 Peter 3:18 he teaches that the forgiveness of all sins of all mankind occurred the moment that Christ was put to death in the body (“For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God”). This Scripture (1 Pet 3:18) agrees with other Scriptures in the New Testament, such as Romans chapter 6 and chapters 9 and 10 in Hebrews, which testify that regardless of whether or not we receive it, Christ’s suffering and death on the Cross paid the penalty for and provided forgiveness for all the sins of all mankind - once for all. Hebrews 10:17-18 seals it all with this pronouncement from the Holy Spirit: “’Their sins and lawless acts I will remember no more.’ And where these (sins) HAVE BEEN FORGIVEN, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins.”
You see, after Jesus’ death on the cross, the issue of salvation is no longer about the forgiveness of sins and receiving new life; it’s solely about receiving new life, made possible by the power of the Resurrection (see 1 Peter 3:21b-22) and the Gift of the Holy Spirit. No one goes to hell for committing sins after the cross, because the exact minute Jesus died on the cross He paid the penalty for ALL of the sins of all mankind (“He died ONCE for ALL...”). After that moment, the only thing that can send a person to hell is being dead in Adam, instead of being alive in Christ - in other words, spiritual death. After Christ’s death on the cross, the one and only sin that can send a person to hell is the sin of unbelief in what He has done for us, because that is the only action that can keep a person from asking Jesus into his/her heart and receiving Life (thus, “unbelief which occurs BEFORE being born again” is the only unpardonable sin).
Finally, concerning baptism by water, Peter himself teaches in 1 Peter 3:21 that the water that saved Noah and his family and that removes dirt from the body - earthly, physical water - is a [b][i]symbol[/b][/i] of the spiritual baptism which occurs when we pledge ourselves to God (verse 21, “and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you”)...Which is what I’ve been saying all along, that water baptism is a symbol of the baptism which Christ provides when we become born again.
Friday, May 25, 2007
On Security and Fogiveness
Here is an interesting request for help that the Holy Spirit had me respond to recently:
I don't know how to explain this without going into a little detail. so here it goes.
I'm 28 and i have two older brothers one is 33 and the other is 31. Well the 31 year old is well i guess very wordly, to say the least. He has abused his wife. physically and emotionally, used his family lied manipulated and stolen, basically anything bad you can name he has done. My mom is the kind of person who will not admit that he has part in how bad his life has become. I am having a really hard time just being arounf him. And God really tested me this weekend when he showed up at our church. Ordinarily I would have sat with my mom but opted to stay in the nursery that day. I know this all sounds really awful, but that isn't all of it so please don't think that I am just being an awful christian. When I was about 4 or 5 he also molested me. I didn't even remember until about 5 years ago, and it only happened once. My mom doesn't know, she thinks I am just having a hard time forgiving all his other indiscreations. But I can't even be around hime, he makes my skin crawl. And I know God wants me to forgive , but I don't think I can. And my mom doesn't really understand why. Now he might show up church again this sunday, and I know how wrong it is for me to say this, but I don't want him there. I feel like my whole sense of security is gone. I don't know what to do can someone please help me?
Here is the reply I felt led to share with her:
First of all, let me commend you for reaching out for help with this difficult situation. Bitterness and anger are to our spirit and soul as sulphuric acid is to the body: They will eat you alive if not quickly neutralized.
May I suggest that until you deal with with the problem of your sense of security, you will have a difficult - if not impossible - time dealing with forgiveness issues. If you are basing your sense of security on your attending church, on your brothers actions, on past experiences or on anything else other than your relationship to God (specifically, who you are in Christ Jesus), then you are building your house of security on a foundation of shifting sand, and it is bound to collapse and fail you.
You see, here’s what I mean: When you become a born again Believer and make Jesus Christ Lord of your life, you become a child of God through the indwelling presence of Christ (Rom 8:9-16). When God becomes your Father, and you humble yourself under His mighty hand, you allow Him to be the Source of all your needs, including the need for security (which happens to be one of a woman’s most important needs). Paul addresses this idea no less than three times in chapter 4 of his epistle to the Philippians. First, in verses 5-7 he says, “Let your gentleness be evident to all. The Lord is near. Do not be anxious about anything, but in EVERYTHING, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests (read - “needs”) to God. And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and you minds in Christ Jesus.” Next, in verse 13 he says, “I can do EVERYTHING (even deal with your brother and mom) through Him who gives me strength.” Finally, in verse 19 he declares, “And my God will meet all your needs according to His glorious riches in Christ Jesus.” Jesus tells us in Matt 6:25-34 that when we seek FIRST the Kingdom of God and His righteousness, all of our other needs will be met.
Your problems concerning not being able to put your past behind you and not being able to forgive are closely related to a common issue: Not understanding, or not believing, what God has done for YOU, as well as for all mankind; so let’s take a look at that for a few moments. When Jesus came into the world 2000 years ago in order to restore mankind’s ability to have a personal relationship with God, there were two obstacles which had to be resolved: 1) The punishment due for the sins of all men, which is physical death (“...the wages of sin is death” - Rom 6), had to be paid; and 2) The dead spirit (ie, separation from God) all men inherit from Adam because of his disobedience to God’s command had to be restored to life. Think of it this way: If someone you knew died of a disease, and you had the power to bring that person back to life, you would need to do two things. First, you would have to cure the disease (or they would just die again) and then you would need to give them life (or they would just be a healed corpse). Jesus overcame these two obstacles in this way: He gave His life for us (death on the cross), so that He could give His life (resurrected from death) to us, so that He could live His life through us. Hebrews 10:8-18 (please take a few moments to read this) describes how Jesus’ death on the cross resolved the first issue. There are two things you need to get a hold of here: 1) Jesus paid the price for all men for all time (verse 12), and 2) The Holy Spirit of God testifies that as a result of Christ’s sacrifice “Their (Mankind’s) sins and lawless acts I will remember no more. And where these HAVE BEEN FORGIVEN, there is no longer any sacrifice for sin.”(vrs 17-18).
Then, 2 Cor 5:14-21 (again, please read this before going on) describes how Jesus, through His resurrection (victory over death) resolved the second obstacle by providing new life to those who will receive it and making US ministers of God’s reconciliation, which is the heart of the Good News of the Gospel. Take particular note of verses 16-19: “So from now on (after we receive Christ into our life) we regard NO ONE (including your brother and mom) from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come. All this is from God, who reconciled (past tense) us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: That God was reconciling the world to Himself in Christ, NOT COUNTING MEN’S SINS AGAINST THEM.”
You see, Angelray, if you have not made Jesus Christ Lord of your life, you will have to take some of the worldly advice you’ve received here and try and solve your dilemma(s) from a human perspective, which seldom gives you total relief or a lasting peace. But if you are a born again Believer, in view of the Scriptures we’ve looked at above, let me ask you a couple of questions: 1) Are you more important than Christ? Because when you say that you can’t forgive someone, after He already has, isn’t that what you are indicating? 2) Do you know better how to handle your past than God? Because when you say you can’t forget what you’ve done in the past, or others have done to you, isn’t that what you’re suggesting? I mean, if God says that He has already forgotten men’s sins and lawless acts, who do you think is reminding you of those things? (Here’s a great saying: When the devil starts reminding you of your past, start reminding him of his future. Remember, the One who is in you is greater than he that is in the world - 1 John 4:4)
Now please don’t misunderstand me here...I’m not saying that Believers should condone or ignore the evils that people do in this world, because surely that would only encourage them to do more evil. Instead, we need to get alone with the Father and ask for His help, guidance and strength in handling these situations as ministers of His love and His message of reconciliation; because until these people get Life and a new heart, they will seldom change their ways. Let those around you see God working in your life and, believe me, they will be convicted of a need for Him in theirs. Let’s face it...If you are avoiding being around your brother, or acting like he “makes your skin crawl” when you are, he’s probably not going to experience that through you. His coming to church may be the start of his new life in Christ - only God knows what is in His heart. But remember the parable of the prodigal son in Luke 15:11-32? Surely you don’t want to identify with the jealous sibling.
Finally, consider the words of Paul in Eph 4:31-32: “Get rid of ALL bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with EVERY form of malice. Be kind and compassionate to one another, FORGIVING EACH OTHER, JUST AS IN CHRIST GOD FORGAVE YOU.” Remember, if there is no peace and joy in what you are doing, then God is probably not in it. There’s a saying about this that rings true: No God, no peace...Know God, know peace.
I have petitioned God to help you deal with this situation, and I look forward to hearing your praise report on the results.
I don't know how to explain this without going into a little detail. so here it goes.
I'm 28 and i have two older brothers one is 33 and the other is 31. Well the 31 year old is well i guess very wordly, to say the least. He has abused his wife. physically and emotionally, used his family lied manipulated and stolen, basically anything bad you can name he has done. My mom is the kind of person who will not admit that he has part in how bad his life has become. I am having a really hard time just being arounf him. And God really tested me this weekend when he showed up at our church. Ordinarily I would have sat with my mom but opted to stay in the nursery that day. I know this all sounds really awful, but that isn't all of it so please don't think that I am just being an awful christian. When I was about 4 or 5 he also molested me. I didn't even remember until about 5 years ago, and it only happened once. My mom doesn't know, she thinks I am just having a hard time forgiving all his other indiscreations. But I can't even be around hime, he makes my skin crawl. And I know God wants me to forgive , but I don't think I can. And my mom doesn't really understand why. Now he might show up church again this sunday, and I know how wrong it is for me to say this, but I don't want him there. I feel like my whole sense of security is gone. I don't know what to do can someone please help me?
Here is the reply I felt led to share with her:
First of all, let me commend you for reaching out for help with this difficult situation. Bitterness and anger are to our spirit and soul as sulphuric acid is to the body: They will eat you alive if not quickly neutralized.
May I suggest that until you deal with with the problem of your sense of security, you will have a difficult - if not impossible - time dealing with forgiveness issues. If you are basing your sense of security on your attending church, on your brothers actions, on past experiences or on anything else other than your relationship to God (specifically, who you are in Christ Jesus), then you are building your house of security on a foundation of shifting sand, and it is bound to collapse and fail you.
You see, here’s what I mean: When you become a born again Believer and make Jesus Christ Lord of your life, you become a child of God through the indwelling presence of Christ (Rom 8:9-16). When God becomes your Father, and you humble yourself under His mighty hand, you allow Him to be the Source of all your needs, including the need for security (which happens to be one of a woman’s most important needs). Paul addresses this idea no less than three times in chapter 4 of his epistle to the Philippians. First, in verses 5-7 he says, “Let your gentleness be evident to all. The Lord is near. Do not be anxious about anything, but in EVERYTHING, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests (read - “needs”) to God. And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and you minds in Christ Jesus.” Next, in verse 13 he says, “I can do EVERYTHING (even deal with your brother and mom) through Him who gives me strength.” Finally, in verse 19 he declares, “And my God will meet all your needs according to His glorious riches in Christ Jesus.” Jesus tells us in Matt 6:25-34 that when we seek FIRST the Kingdom of God and His righteousness, all of our other needs will be met.
Your problems concerning not being able to put your past behind you and not being able to forgive are closely related to a common issue: Not understanding, or not believing, what God has done for YOU, as well as for all mankind; so let’s take a look at that for a few moments. When Jesus came into the world 2000 years ago in order to restore mankind’s ability to have a personal relationship with God, there were two obstacles which had to be resolved: 1) The punishment due for the sins of all men, which is physical death (“...the wages of sin is death” - Rom 6), had to be paid; and 2) The dead spirit (ie, separation from God) all men inherit from Adam because of his disobedience to God’s command had to be restored to life. Think of it this way: If someone you knew died of a disease, and you had the power to bring that person back to life, you would need to do two things. First, you would have to cure the disease (or they would just die again) and then you would need to give them life (or they would just be a healed corpse). Jesus overcame these two obstacles in this way: He gave His life for us (death on the cross), so that He could give His life (resurrected from death) to us, so that He could live His life through us. Hebrews 10:8-18 (please take a few moments to read this) describes how Jesus’ death on the cross resolved the first issue. There are two things you need to get a hold of here: 1) Jesus paid the price for all men for all time (verse 12), and 2) The Holy Spirit of God testifies that as a result of Christ’s sacrifice “Their (Mankind’s) sins and lawless acts I will remember no more. And where these HAVE BEEN FORGIVEN, there is no longer any sacrifice for sin.”(vrs 17-18).
Then, 2 Cor 5:14-21 (again, please read this before going on) describes how Jesus, through His resurrection (victory over death) resolved the second obstacle by providing new life to those who will receive it and making US ministers of God’s reconciliation, which is the heart of the Good News of the Gospel. Take particular note of verses 16-19: “So from now on (after we receive Christ into our life) we regard NO ONE (including your brother and mom) from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come. All this is from God, who reconciled (past tense) us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: That God was reconciling the world to Himself in Christ, NOT COUNTING MEN’S SINS AGAINST THEM.”
You see, Angelray, if you have not made Jesus Christ Lord of your life, you will have to take some of the worldly advice you’ve received here and try and solve your dilemma(s) from a human perspective, which seldom gives you total relief or a lasting peace. But if you are a born again Believer, in view of the Scriptures we’ve looked at above, let me ask you a couple of questions: 1) Are you more important than Christ? Because when you say that you can’t forgive someone, after He already has, isn’t that what you are indicating? 2) Do you know better how to handle your past than God? Because when you say you can’t forget what you’ve done in the past, or others have done to you, isn’t that what you’re suggesting? I mean, if God says that He has already forgotten men’s sins and lawless acts, who do you think is reminding you of those things? (Here’s a great saying: When the devil starts reminding you of your past, start reminding him of his future. Remember, the One who is in you is greater than he that is in the world - 1 John 4:4)
Now please don’t misunderstand me here...I’m not saying that Believers should condone or ignore the evils that people do in this world, because surely that would only encourage them to do more evil. Instead, we need to get alone with the Father and ask for His help, guidance and strength in handling these situations as ministers of His love and His message of reconciliation; because until these people get Life and a new heart, they will seldom change their ways. Let those around you see God working in your life and, believe me, they will be convicted of a need for Him in theirs. Let’s face it...If you are avoiding being around your brother, or acting like he “makes your skin crawl” when you are, he’s probably not going to experience that through you. His coming to church may be the start of his new life in Christ - only God knows what is in His heart. But remember the parable of the prodigal son in Luke 15:11-32? Surely you don’t want to identify with the jealous sibling.
Finally, consider the words of Paul in Eph 4:31-32: “Get rid of ALL bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with EVERY form of malice. Be kind and compassionate to one another, FORGIVING EACH OTHER, JUST AS IN CHRIST GOD FORGAVE YOU.” Remember, if there is no peace and joy in what you are doing, then God is probably not in it. There’s a saying about this that rings true: No God, no peace...Know God, know peace.
I have petitioned God to help you deal with this situation, and I look forward to hearing your praise report on the results.
Wednesday, May 2, 2007
On Weak and Lost Connections
I recently saw this request from a young person (I think the age was around 16) on a Christian forum I frequent:
Do any of you experience a loss of connection between you and God? Do you feel that society today chips away at your faith all the day? My connection with God is turning on and off and its been off for a long time.
I am experiencing these problems and have been advised to read my bible and pray, but thats not enough, unless it works over time.
Can anyone help me?
The following is what I believe the Holy Spirit was showing me about this problem:
I have been praying about how to address your dilemma, because I think the "lost connection" syndrome afflicts way too many of us Christians these days (Isn't it ironic - in the age of instant, space-age communication systems in this world, one of our biggest problems is communicating with God!), and the Holy Spirit gave me a really neat illustration to describe the problem, and how to resolve it! I hope that I can "do justice" on relaying this to you, because I think that it is really good stuff!
Let me ask you something: Do you have a cellphone? Most likely, since they have become a cultural phenomenon around the world, you do, or you have used your parents' or friends' phones and you are familiar with how they operate; so let me ask you this: What would you say are the top three complaints about the operation of cellphones? I would say they are, in order from biggest to smallest: 1) Dropped calls and lost connections; 2) Weak or no signal; and, 3) Discharged or dead battery. Now, there are various solutions to each one of these problems, but did you know that there is one "surefire" answer to all three? I'll give you three guesses as to what that solution is, and the first two don't count. That's right! It's the good old, everyday, cheap, plug-in-the-wall, basic hardwired telephone; and I'm not talking about those portable "jobs", either! I'll have you know that I have caught myself wondering what to do about a weak signal or dropped call when there was a "land line" telephone not 5 steps away from where I was standing...Pathetic, isn't it? Just think, less than 20 years ago, no one ever lost a connection during a phone call, unless you had one of those new-fangled portable phones in your home, or the phone lines were knocked out during a storm.
Now, here is the application to your situation: The cellphone represents our trying to communicate and stay connected with God while trying to conduct our busy lives in this world on the move; The old fashioned telephone represents a place we go to be alone with God (think of a phone booth); the telephone wire represents the Bible, our primary means of connecting with Him; and the phone call and resulting conversation represent our prayer time. That old time telephone call which we make using the “land line” system (which, by the way, is still available in our everyday life) represents our best and most reliable way of staying connected with God. True, we often have to drop what we are doing to use it, but you know what...I don’t think God is much impressed with our “multitasking” prowess anyway.
In fact, I think that one of the main questions we need to ask ourselves when we are having trouble maintaining a connection with God is this: Exactly where does He fit into our prolific use of video games, CD and DVD players, HD TVs, high powered computers and, of course, cellphones? If we think that Almighty God, Maker of the universe and all that is in it, the “Ultimate Multi-tasker”, is going to compete for our time with these manmade gadgets, we are being sadly misled. I believe that He provided the knowledge to create all those “tools” so that He could direct us Believers on how to use them to be more productive in spreading the Good News of the Gospel; but like we often do with the things He provides, we have turned them into a means for our own personal pleasure, perversion and profit - and yes, I’m including “yours truly.”
You can download a book called The Prayer Directed Life for free at www.theprayerdirectedlife.com to help resolve your connection problem, but until you go to your “phone booth” and make that “telephone call,” early and often, you’ll continue to be plagued by weak connections.
Do any of you experience a loss of connection between you and God? Do you feel that society today chips away at your faith all the day? My connection with God is turning on and off and its been off for a long time.
I am experiencing these problems and have been advised to read my bible and pray, but thats not enough, unless it works over time.
Can anyone help me?
The following is what I believe the Holy Spirit was showing me about this problem:
I have been praying about how to address your dilemma, because I think the "lost connection" syndrome afflicts way too many of us Christians these days (Isn't it ironic - in the age of instant, space-age communication systems in this world, one of our biggest problems is communicating with God!), and the Holy Spirit gave me a really neat illustration to describe the problem, and how to resolve it! I hope that I can "do justice" on relaying this to you, because I think that it is really good stuff!
Let me ask you something: Do you have a cellphone? Most likely, since they have become a cultural phenomenon around the world, you do, or you have used your parents' or friends' phones and you are familiar with how they operate; so let me ask you this: What would you say are the top three complaints about the operation of cellphones? I would say they are, in order from biggest to smallest: 1) Dropped calls and lost connections; 2) Weak or no signal; and, 3) Discharged or dead battery. Now, there are various solutions to each one of these problems, but did you know that there is one "surefire" answer to all three? I'll give you three guesses as to what that solution is, and the first two don't count. That's right! It's the good old, everyday, cheap, plug-in-the-wall, basic hardwired telephone; and I'm not talking about those portable "jobs", either! I'll have you know that I have caught myself wondering what to do about a weak signal or dropped call when there was a "land line" telephone not 5 steps away from where I was standing...Pathetic, isn't it? Just think, less than 20 years ago, no one ever lost a connection during a phone call, unless you had one of those new-fangled portable phones in your home, or the phone lines were knocked out during a storm.
Now, here is the application to your situation: The cellphone represents our trying to communicate and stay connected with God while trying to conduct our busy lives in this world on the move; The old fashioned telephone represents a place we go to be alone with God (think of a phone booth); the telephone wire represents the Bible, our primary means of connecting with Him; and the phone call and resulting conversation represent our prayer time. That old time telephone call which we make using the “land line” system (which, by the way, is still available in our everyday life) represents our best and most reliable way of staying connected with God. True, we often have to drop what we are doing to use it, but you know what...I don’t think God is much impressed with our “multitasking” prowess anyway.
In fact, I think that one of the main questions we need to ask ourselves when we are having trouble maintaining a connection with God is this: Exactly where does He fit into our prolific use of video games, CD and DVD players, HD TVs, high powered computers and, of course, cellphones? If we think that Almighty God, Maker of the universe and all that is in it, the “Ultimate Multi-tasker”, is going to compete for our time with these manmade gadgets, we are being sadly misled. I believe that He provided the knowledge to create all those “tools” so that He could direct us Believers on how to use them to be more productive in spreading the Good News of the Gospel; but like we often do with the things He provides, we have turned them into a means for our own personal pleasure, perversion and profit - and yes, I’m including “yours truly.”
You can download a book called The Prayer Directed Life for free at www.theprayerdirectedlife.com to help resolve your connection problem, but until you go to your “phone booth” and make that “telephone call,” early and often, you’ll continue to be plagued by weak connections.
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